Leona M. Zastrow is working on her Ph.D. degree in fine arts at Texas Tech University in Lubbock. She received her Master of Arts in Art Education at Arizona State University. Her address is 2121 65th Street, Lubbock, Texas 79412.

Indian art sprang from basic conceptualization of use and beauty as accom paniments to the tasks and challenges encountered in the normal daily round. (see Reference 2)

This embodiment of the Indian conception of the use and beauty in the materials of his daily life is art in its widest sense, not up on a shelf to be regarded occasionally but adorning and giving meaning to everything about him. (see Reference 7)

The Papago used to make horsehair belts or head masks, that's an art to them and some of the Pima used to make it. But I think the biggest part of art for the Pima is their singing. We don't use any instruments or drums. They don't attempt to use baskets and then they have rattles. Today they use cardboard boxes for baskets because they make more noise. You can't find baskets anymore, now that's getting to be a lost art, basket making. It was one of the main arts, it was a way of life. They used that for work, they used it for carrying things and then they hooked designs on it.

I would say that would be an expression of culture. The different culture like silversmithing, now that's not a Pima culture but another tribe. But they learn that as a way of making a living or some of them just plain like it. They do that because they got to like that kind of art and they put their minds to it, and they're doing it.

Yes, it is true. You see that basket weaving, now my wife is the only one here, there is a few, there's Mrs. Peters, Mrs. Brown, Mrs. Laus, Mrs. Manuel, and Mrs. Mae Lewis and a few others. They're getting old. But none of the young want to learn what it takes to make baskets. They had basket making class this year and a lady, Madeline Lewis, who works at the Casa Grande Museum, no it wasn't her, it was Mrs. Ruth somebody. But the women there, they are in the senior citizen category, but they have to learn what time of year to pick the material, how to fix: it. See that's one thing that my wife does and the younger people just think it is there and you can just take it and go on like you make a rug or things like that where you just buy the yarn and start it. . . . See and there are young women now who want to go back to doing it but they have to have the patience to go back from the very start.

But that too is to come back to singing, but the thing of it is that hardly any young people speak Indian anymore, they all talk English. And have to learn the language first, before they can enjoy it.

My grandchildren? Oh, talking about art, I knew a boy, my brother-in-law, he's gone. Ruth's brother that he did some drawings. Whatever there is in my children or grandchildren has come from that other family, from my wife's family. And not from me, because I never drew, never knew my father to draw. That's my side. She's from Santa Cruz. . . . Sammy Juan was older than she and he is the one that drew. Now Ruth has a nephew who does leather work. She bought a purse from him that was a beautiful purse.

Yeah, I wasn't a singer either, that wasn't my art. My art was working. Produce things so I can have them in case somebody goes hungry. A little bit for somebody you know. Keep things like that, that's the way it is with singing, you know, you learn to sing and something happens that you want to and somebody asks you to sing, you go right ahead and helping them out with singing. And things like that, it's just where, it's just where one thing is for everyone. And this art of singing, I call it an art because in that singing, like I said before, the words are kind of what you might say misplaced, for one who has not used it will have hard time understanding what that means or what it is about. You have to think and in those songs you will find something poetic, you know like poetry. You know it takes you away sometimes in some of the songs; it seems like it takes you away into a different world.

Art is not for everyone. We don't know who's for art and who art is for. That would be the only way and the best way to do. Some of them might prove themselves to be good artists. Yes, it will be good.

But that's the way it is with everything, like in art, you mentioned if you should go ahead and continue teaching art, I say yes, go ahead. For several reasons , the main reason would be to develop art in the children, to develop the idea of whatever they want to do in the line of art and another reason is if they get interested enough to come to classes, they may stay out of trouble. As it is now, there is nothing going on and nothing that can be appreciated, nothing much, like now art is a great thing. A beautiful thing, I appreciate art but I'm not an artist. I'm not cut out to be an artist, but I like art. I admire drawings, paintings, music, things like that. So if they can develop that, that will do them some good.

Pottery is important because used especially in the ceremonial uses of our people. Acoma pottery is still used at birth as in death, so I would like for my children to learn the art of making pottery.

Do you know in the past five years I think the majority of our teenagers and young adults have come back to religious doings? . . . and I see a lot of younger men at our ceremonies at Acoma, men in their twenties and thirties taking an active part in it where before they never did. Mostly you saw the elder people, the men, but now and even in the Fall, fall dances, younger girls take part in it. That really makes me feel good. . . .

Like I said earlier, a lot of the ladies do beautiful painting, but they do it on ceramics and I don't like that. There is no sense in them going out and buying their ready made pottery. They have the clay right here; they don't have to put any money out; it's right there. Yet they go out and pay for glazing, firing, paints, brushes--I don't do that and it's all there for me and I wish they would take the value they get from Mother Nature. You know Mother Nature has all of that available to them and they don't take advantage of that. They don't realize that it is right there to use, instead they go out and put more expense on themselves.

For instance, there are certain things that we Indians do at a burial or when somebody dies and a lot of the people on the reservation don't go for that anymore. They just want to cut out the ceremony and go ahead and bury their loved ones.

There is an elderly woman that teaches weaving; her name is Pabloita Concho. She used to teach in the old government school. She's teaching weaving, and sewing, those dead skills. She, I'm sure, would like somebody to recognize her for her work. She does beautiful work.

The youngest one I can think of right now, she must be about twenty-seven. I think she learned from her grandmother, because her grandmother isn't making potteries anymore.

There's another young lady, she's about 35, she does those Indian ceremonial robes. Oh, she does beautiful work on those. She does beautiful band sewing. She is just a young woman.

For me I believe that the children should be aware of the work that goes into it and the time that you spend in making pottery; and those are the things that are of value to me, as an artist. The time and effort I put into my work. In that way I feel people will appreciate my work. If it comes out pretty, then I know people will appreciate it. But if you do it any old way, nobody's going to appreciate it.

Like I said before, I want people to know that work that goes into it. You see so much of this mass production in Indian jewelry and it hurts me because it hurts the craftsmen too. Whereas my work, nobody can duplicate it because they don't have the right clay.

I, myself, when I make some pottery, certain types of pottery which I have never tried, and when Mother comes and says, "Oh, that's beautiful," it makes me feel good to have somebody compliment me, especially my mother.

I think so and the majority of it goes to the parents. Parents should teach it at home. It is up to the parents mostly. We, in our family, have been telling the children things that were taught me and I'm trying to pass it on to my children.

I do believe that the children from kindergarten on should be exposed to all kinds of Indian art, beadwork, weaving, sewing, it's really important. . . . I would prefer that the children be taught the original way of making things, then exposed to the modern type.

A native speaking, somebody who would explain in our native language, that I would like. Yes, there is an elder woman that teaches pottery making at the Adult Education class--I am very sad to say that they are not teaching the younger ones, like the first and second graders. They are young adults, some in their early twenties, but little children and grade school children are not exposed to that. I wish someone could get somebody to teach them. I think if the kids at that age really catch on to a lot of things, even sewing and crocheting.